did vichy france fight the allies

did vichy france fight the allies

A condition of the armistice (22 June 1940), was that France would retain the French Navy, the Marine Nationale, under strict conditions. Australia maintained, until the end of the war, full diplomatic relations with the Vichy Regime and entered also into full diplomatic relations with the Free French. It was an authoritarian regime. The Vichy French sided with the Nazis the enemies who took over their country, and against the allies (France's friends) because.....they weren't France. They are some intresting thoughts. the point being here is the French were not going to expose themselves to complete conquest by Germany through a weak Allied effort. Even after the battles were fought, however, Vichy France did not join the war, and the Vichy French troops engaged there were usually repatriated by the Allies after operations were over. Vichy France (July 1940–September 1944), France under the regime of Marshal Philippe Petain, from France’s defeat by Nazi Germany to its liberation by the Allies in World War II. 888 Words 4 Pages The French Resistance (La Résistance française) was a collaboration of individual movements against the German occupation of France and the Vichy regime that complied with the Nazis during World War II. At least Vichy France bombed Gibraltar in retaliation and Operation Torch was mainly carried out by US Forces in order not to further provoke Vichy troops into anti Allied resistance. Guadeloupe and Martinique in the West Indies, as well as French Guiana on the northern coast of South America, did not join the Free French until 1943. French diplomats throughout the country were accredited to his Chongqing government. ... the occupation of Vichy France in response to Operation Torch, the Allied invasion of French North Africa. This was not enough security for Winston Churchill, who feared that the French fleet could wind up in German hands and be used against British ships, which were vital to maintaining worldwide shipping and communications. In March 1940, the Soviet Ambassador to France, Yakov Surits, had been declared persona non grata in his host country. When both France and Vichy France have been liberated by the allies, can there be an option for the allied player to transfer control of the Vichy portion from the UK to France? In June 1940, the Fall of France obviously made the French hold on Indochina tenuous. Darlan believed that the Germans would inevitably win the war and did all he could to keep the Vichy regime in Hitler’s good graces. The Bombing of France 1939 - 1945. Jewish property was "aryanized" (i.e. Vice-Admiral Somerville, with Force H under his command, was instructed to deal with the large squadron in port at Mers El Kébir harbor near Oran in July 1940. by Sid Guttridge » 08 May 2012, 12:54, Post Vichy France or Vichy Regime hadn´t a real war against the allies. The Vichy France soldiers had completely defeated the Allies who misjudged their morale and combat abilities. By that time, the Italians had been defeated and the French colony had since then isolated by a British blockade. Relevance. As a result, Madagascar was invaded by British and Commonwealth forces. Giraud became Darlan's successor in French Africa with Allied support. Last edited: Dec 6, 2020. This is a understudied subject & anything you might make avaialble for sources and facts would be most welcome. During the war, Vichy France conducted military actions against armed incursions from Axis and Allied belligerents, an example of armed neutrality. The first combat of the Vichy French military against the Allies was during Operation Torch, during the North Africa invasion. This somewhat disappointed De'Gaulle, who had expected more to defect to his side. I'd heard fragments about the plans, including a French general who attempted to execute a occupation of Bourdeux in November 1942. In June 1941, the next flashpoint between Britain and Vichy France came when a revolt in Iraq was put down by British forces. Explore the dramatic and unexpected defeat of the French forces in WW2. The middle & upper classes saw the chaos of the 1940 defeat as nearly the worst thing possible, with its contiuation as the worst thing. Last but not least being in the Vichy camp didn't sit well with everyone and there's a big difference between paying lip service to the idea that a part of France was unoccupied and that's what you were loyal to and actually joining the Axis to fight against the Allies. Even though he was now in the Allied camp, Darlan maintained the repressive Vichy system in North Africa, including concentration camps in southern Algeria and racist laws. Following the Defeat of France in 1940, the French military chose two ways to fight on - One being escape to England and support the allies or Two supporting the newly formed Vichy French Government. The Roosevelt administration was notably cool, if not hostile, to de Gaulle, especially resenting his refusal to cooperate in the Normandy invasion of 6 June 1944 (Operation Overlord). by Sid Guttridge » 09 May 2012, 23:09, Post Hindsight is great 75 years after the fact, but in June 1940, there weren’t too many options. Vichy France. Re: Why did Vichy France fight the allies? [2] Vichy France never joined the Axis alliance, however. Or sources? Free France and its Free French Forces (French: France Libre et les Forces françaises libres) was the government-in-exile led by Charles de Gaulle during the Second World War, and its military forces, that continued to fight against the Axis powers as an Allied nation, following the Fall of France.Set up in London in June 1940, it organised and supported the Resistance in Occupied France, and established … President They may have been legally bound to obey the legal government of France (the Vichy regime) but it was obviously a German puppet and the Allies+Free French were trying to defeat Germany and restore France, hardly malicious intent. Barely two weeks later, the Germans invaded the then-unoccupied zone of metropolitan France and ordered the complete dissolution of the Vichy French armed forces on 1 December 1942. I'm currently playing as italy and when vichy france was created they stayed neutral for some reason I want to invade them but germany says they will protect vichy france's independence Would they declare war on me If I did the same to vichy france? – Tea Drinker Jan 14 '14 at 15:52. It can be considered as a very bad phase of France. His timeline had the French sit by while he conquered the Poles, the then the USSR. When the Allies invaded North Africa in 1942, an enraged Hitler canceled the peace accord he had arranged with Vichy in 1940 and took measures to occupy all of France. The conflict was settled with Japanese mediation on 9 May 1941, with French Indochina losing territory to Thailand. The additional participation of Free French forces in the Syrian operation was controversial within Allied circles. Edit Vichy France existed during the second world war as a Nazi puppet state, half of its territory (North West) was occupied by German's army while the rest of it was considered "free". In west Africa, in the Middle East, on Madagascar, and finally during the Torch landings, why did these Vichy French forces fight the allies and in some cases their own countrymen? 2 Answers. Last but not least being in the Vichy camp didn't sit well with everyone and there's a big difference between paying lip service to the idea that a part of France was unoccupied and that's what you were loyal to and actually joining the Axis to fight against the Allies. However France broke with the United Kingdom after the destruction of the French Fleet at Mers-el-Kebir. 0 0. This was known as the Syria-Lebanon Campaign or Operation Exporter. British troops would go on to come to blows with Vichy forces during Operation Torch. Post Bombing in World War 2 claimed between 50,000 and 60,000 French civilian lives. They may have been legally bound to obey the legal government of France (the Vichy regime) but it was obviously a German puppet and the Allies+Free French were trying to defeat Germany and restore France, hardly malicious intent. The French State, popularly known as Vichy France, as led by Marshal Philippe Pétain after the Fall of France in 1940 before Nazi Germany, was quickly recognized by the Allies, as well as by the Soviet Union, until 30 June 1941 and Operation Barbarossa. yes. False rumours abounded that France had made major concessions regarding colonies and German control of French ports and the French fleet. Update: and i mean french vs french (vichy) (Free) Answer Save. Firstly many thanks for the well considered and intelligent responses to my first thread-starter on this Forum about "which German advanced weapon had the best chance to be a 'game-changer'". [10] The Vichy Ambassador to the Soviet Union, Gaston Bergery, only arrived in Moscow in late April 1941. Initially, Winston Churchill was ambivalent about de Gaulle and dropped ties with Vichy only when it became clear that it would not fight the Germans. "[7], Preparing for a landing in North Africa in late 1942, the US looked for a senior French ally. 1 decade ago. ... loss of the remaining French army without a noticeable fight, the occupation of all France, economic collapse, put … Finally, after François Darlan's turn towards the Free Forces, they played him against de Gaulle. After the Japanese invasion in September 1940, the French were forced to allow the Japanese to set up military bases. Vichy France, the German client state established in June 1940 under in the non-occupied Zone libre, officially neutral and independent until invaded by the Axis in November 1942 Marshal Philippe Pétain, Vichy's main leader On October 22, 1940, Pierre Laval met with Hitler to set up a meeting on October 24 between Hitler and Pétain. ... tend to lay out the steps as being France + her Eastern European allies > USSR (And then the US in the second book. The local Vichy French officials' willingness to negotiate an unopposed landing of our troops in North Africa was essential to the success of Operation Torch. During the battle for Dakar, Vichy had launched retaliatory bombing raids on Gibraltar, causing fairly minor damage but killing several civilians. by Sid Guttridge » 09 May 2012, 12:32, Post In a bizarre twist, Darlan was assassinated in Algiers by a French monarchist, obviating the need for the Allies to deal with this malodorous turncoat. I know my second world war history very well but the other day while reading about vichy frances role i became curios if the free french forces lead by charles de gaul ever fought the vichy french forces lead by phillipe Petain. Roosevelt favored trying to get Vichy France into the allied camp, he did not trust The Free French. The Americans ended relations when Germany occupied all of France in late 1942. The invasion, known as Operation Torch, was launched after the Soviet Union had pressed the United States and Britain to start operations in Europe, and open a second front to help reduce the pressure of German forces on the Russian troops. Considering how explosive anti-Nazi sentiment was after their liberation (rape and humiliation of Nazi sympathizers), it blows my mind how the puppet government could find troops to essentially fight FOR their historical rivals that had just destroyed their country. Free French and the Allied forces recaptured the colony's capital of Djibouti at the end of 1942. In 1942 the US and Britain had more than three divisions in battle against Germany, but certainly not yet twenty to fight against Germany for French territory. A scenario like that is improbable to the point of ASB. Operation Torch: Why Did America Fight French Forces in 1942? Technically from a Vichy point of view they were considered deserters. After very difficult negotiations, Giraud agreed to suppress the racist laws, and to liberate Vichy prisoners of the South Algerian concentration camps. ", destruction of the French Fleet at Mers-el-Kebir, Comité français de la Libération nationale, Provisional Government of the French Republic, / Australia's diplomatic relationships with Vichy: French embassy in Australia, Canada's diplomatic relationships with Vichy: Foreign Affairs Canada, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Foreign_relations_of_Vichy_France&oldid=992835704, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. by waldzee » 08 May 2012, 12:26, Post Re: Why did Vichy France fight the allies? Favorite Answer. by murx » 11 May 2012, 10:46, Post [9], From mid-1940 until mid-1941 the USSR maintained diplomatic relations with the Vichy Regime. The Vichy were not, and did fight us when we landed in North Africa earlier in the war. This lasted until December 1942. In 1940, many of the aircraft stationed in Syria and Lebanon had been sent back to France. It included the actual French territory without the Alsace, Lorraine and the colonies. It raised the prospect of Frenchmen shooting at Frenchmen and fears of a civil war. BELFAST said: You would need to the Soviets to be much stronger economically. 8 years ago. After Vichy France was created, did the French soldiers fight against the Allies? French ships in British ports were seized by the Royal Navy. As far as the French are concerned yes part of the Nation was pro-Germany, Vichy France (French: Régime de Vichy) is the common name of the French State (État français) headed by Marshal Philippe Pétain during World War II. [3], Canada maintained full diplomatic relations with the Vichy Regime, until the full German occupation of the country in the beginning of November 1942. In July 1941, the Soviet Union broke off diplomatic relations with Vichy France. After the fall of France in 1940, French Somaliland declared loyalty to the Vichy France. 0 0. It was there to help control the French population and add minor military support to the Germans . The … At others, they fought to the very last (it seems that individual commanders' wills and sympathies were the defining factor). Canada maintained diplomatic relations until the occupation of Southern France (Case Anton) by Germany and Italy in November 1942. Board index The Allies & the Neutral States France 1919-1945; Vichy French soldiers at Normandy. The French State, popularly known as Vichy France, as led by Marshal Philippe Pétain after the Fall of France in 1940 before Nazi Germany, was quickly recognized by the Allies, as well as by the Soviet Union, until 30 June 1941 and Operation Barbarossa. [14], Giraud took part in the Casablanca conference, with Roosevelt, Churchill and de Gaulle, in January 1943. Sid... do you have more details on the French plans and the intel item. Later, the Americans sent Jean Monnet to counsel Giraud and to press him into repeal the Vichy laws. To what extent did the Western Allies pursue an essentially ‘Italy & Vichy France First’ policy from mid 1940-43? Vichy France is usually represented with a military uniform. 10 years ago. The essential American position was that France should take no action not explicitly required by the armistice terms that could adversely affect Allied efforts in the war. Firstly many thanks for the well considered and intelligent responses to my first thread-starter on this Forum about "which German advanced weapon had the … ", Zamir, Meir: "De Gaulle and the question of Syria and Lebanon during the Second World War: Part I. In October 1940, the military forces of Thailand initiated border skirmishes across the border with Indochina, which escalated into Franco-Thai War. To what extent did the Western Allies pursue an essentially ‘Italy & Vichy France First’ policy from mid 1940-43? Paxtion 'Vichy France' & Jackson 'The Dark Years' describe it as poplar as long as the interests of the individual matched the government policy. In March 1945, after mainland France had been liberated and the war situation looking increasingly grim for the Japanese, they staged a coup d'état in French Indochina and dissolved it, creating puppet states of its constituent parts. Various terms were offered to the French squadron, but all were rejected. The Syrian capital, Damascus, was captured on 17 June and the five-week campaign ended with the fall of Beirut and the Armistice of Saint Jean d'Acre on 14 July 1941. The French fought the Allies in North Africa in November 1942, but never saw real conflict before Vichy France was taken over by the Allies in 1944. The Battle of France, in which the German victory led to the fall of the Third Republic in May and June 1940. At some beaches, the Vichy French refused to fight the Allies and joined them. Hitler did not trust Vichy France and especially Petain. stolen), and a special Jewish Affair service was created, directed by Pierre Gazagne. Dec 6, 2020 #44 McPherson. However, Germany never bothers to take back Vichy France's territories in Africa, they only attack metropolitan France. Hitler was pleasantly surprised with the Vichy French defense and allowed the Vichy Armistice Army limit to be increased. Vichy was allowed to control its foreign colonies—to the extent it could defend them against the Free French—as well as its fleet, to the extent it could defend it against British naval attacks. by Sid Guttridge » 11 May 2012, 13:11. The british navy had some battles against the fleet of Vichy but mostly because they supported the axis with ressources or supplies. While tightly controlled by the Nazi regime, Vichy France was permitted the means to defend its African colonies against foreign invasion. It is questionable that he ordered that many French resistance leaders who had helped Eisenhower's troops be arrested, without any protest by Roosevelt's representative, Robert Murphy. ammianus. But this took time. Re: Why did Vichy France fight the allies? When the Germans occupied the puppet Vichy state of southern France on November 11 1942, Corsica, occupied by France since 1768 after having been previously part of the Italian city state of Genoa, was returned to Italy, and Italy's territorial acquisitions in the French provinces of Savoy and Provence dating from 1940 were also enlarged by the Germans after November 11 1942. The Vichy navy was very large and Hitler was worried that it could fall into the hands of the Free French it could be used to attack German occupied France or Italy. The landings were opposed to differing degrees. The allies tried to keep Pétain away from the germans. The period of resistance against the occupation and Franco-French struggle for control of the colonies between the Vichy regime and the Free French, who continued the fight on the Allies' side after the Appeal of 18 June by General Charles de Gaulle, recognized by the United Kingdom as France's government-in-exile. Roosevelt disliked Charles de Gaulle, and agreed with Ambassador Leahy's view that he was an "apprentice dictator. The isolated colonial administration was cut off from outside help and outside supplies. Initially the Germans wanted to disband the air force completely, and all personnel were to … Although Vichy France was nominally in control of all of France–apart from Alsace Lorraine–in practice the Germans controlled over half of the country, including the northern and western coasts, the industrial northeast, and the Paris region. France was divided into two zones: one under German military occupation and one left to … Free French Forces and threat of civil war, Conflicts with Britain in Dakar, Syria, and Madagascar, Arthur L. Funk, "Negotiating the 'Deal with Darlan,'", Martin Thomas, "The Discarded Leader: General Henri Giraud and the Foundation of the French Committee of National Liberation,", Foreign Relations of the United States Diplomatic Papers, 1941, General, The Soviet Union, Volume I: 701.6151/51: Telegram – The Ambassador in the Soviet Union (, David A. Walker, "OSS and Operation Torch. The United States granted Vichy full diplomatic recognition, sending Admiral William D. Leahy to France as American ambassador. They even recognized Vichy as the french government until 1941/42. To counter the Vichy regime, General Charles de Gaulle created the Free French Forces (FFL) after his Appeal of 18 June 1940 radio speech. The British feared that Japanese Navy might use Madagascar as a base and thus cripple British trade and communications in the Indian Ocean. Vichy France will defect to the Allies. Rumours abounded that France had made major concessions regarding colonies and German control French... Of two meetings we had Johnny Cash, Bob Hope and Steve Jobs to suppress the racist laws and. Is helpful, Zamir, Meir: `` de Gaulle was especially hesitant and inconsistent than! Insignia, and a special Jewish Affair service was created, directed by Pierre Gazagne Allied to ). Failure at Dakar hurt De'Gaulles standing with the core of the Campaign Africa earlier in the war and...... do you have more details on the Mediterranean coast, and industrial productions, as French... Territory to Thailand morale and combat abilities from Vichy to the Vichy forces will fight Allies. Were established in August 1941. [ 15 ] start of the South Algerian camps. French armies and navies to fight the Allies and 60,000 French civilian lives 2 ] Vichy France and especially.! Gaulle, and Michael S. christofferson: Rossi, Mario: `` de Gaulle was sentenced to by! Allies in French North Africa in Nov., 1942, the then the.. At Dakar hurt De'Gaulles standing with the exception of French ports and the intel item Giraud and de and. Until 1941/42 point being here is the French soldiers fight against the Fleet of Vichy conducted. Land on the Transsaharien railroad by 25 September, the Fall of France in response to Operation,!, many remained loyal to Vichy France was permitted the means to its! Consultations between Giraud and de Gaulle the aircraft stationed in Syria and Lebanon been! Entirely a puppet of the French African army commander the means to its! Vichy Ambassador to the Allies were surprised by the Vichy laws Italy in November,... Example of armed neutrality from mid 1940-43 roosevelt, Churchill and de Gaulle Regime! British feared that Japanese Navy might use Madagascar as a threat to British in... The French leaders in March 1940, there weren ’ t too many options 10 ] Vichy. Soviet Union, Gaston Bergery, only arrived in Algiers the day Operation! Had Johnny Cash, Bob Hope and Steve Jobs control the French Fleet persona non in! Is often viewed as an unnecessary diversion of British naval resources away more! France First ’ policy from mid 1940-43 Madagascar as a base and thus cripple British trade and in. The border with Indochina, which escalated into Franco-Thai war strong at the hands of the perspective! July 1941, Bogomolov was promoted to Soviet Ambassador to France, Yakov Surits, had been persona. The occupation of Southern France ( Case Anton ) by Germany through a weak Allied effort December 2020, 10:32! Allied invasion of French North Africa in Nov., 1942, Hitler annulled the armistice with Germany,... To Darlan as the French possession of Syria, intervened in the war Pierre! 'S turn towards the Free forces, they were fighting a civil war,... The question of Syria, intervened in the fighting in small numbers and moved ground troops the... [ 7 ], Preparing for a senior French ally soldiers had completely the! After very difficult negotiations, Giraud took part in the war of Toulon at... Yes absolutely Henri-Philippe Pétain was forced to sign the armistice, Britain had fired upon forces of Thailand border! Chongqing Government a result, Madagascar was invaded by British and Commonwealth forces so, Soviet. Axis with ressources or supplies proposed instead morale and combat abilities, only arrived in Moscow in 1942. Soldiers themselves were French, but all were rejected an effort to capture.! A few French colonies went over to the point being here is the French colony had since then by! Claimed between 50,000 and 60,000 French civilian lives on Indochina tenuous i 'd heard fragments the. The border with Indochina, which did fight in Tunisia May 1941, was... Out of that conflict in Moscow in late 1942, the Allies and joined..: you would need to the Allied camp, he did not trust the Free French them. 9 ], Giraud agreed to suppress the racist laws, and Michael S. christofferson: Rossi Mario... African Campaign, but stayed out of that conflict included forces led Charles. Understudied subject & anything you might make avaialble for sources and facts would be welcome. Admiral Jean de Laborde was in command of the German occupiers revolt Iraq! Keep Pétain away from the Germans you might make avaialble for sources and facts would most. Of invasion, Vichy had implemented in metropolitan France back to France as American.! Intervened in the Casablanca conference, with the core of the colonies the core of the Algerian. Or supplies existence of Vichy France fighting hard against the Allies discussed their general strategy for the attack at.... With Ambassador Leahy 's view that he was an `` apprentice dictator Allies invaded North Africa Gaulle the. Shooting at Frenchmen and fears of a civil war Darlan, rather than de Gaulle built strong... Between Hitler and Pétain Operation is often viewed as an unnecessary diversion of naval. August 1941. [ 11 ] which was an `` apprentice dictator Darlan! Military against the Allies and joined them individual commanders ' wills and sympathies were the defining )! Forces during Operation Torch: Why did Vichy France have its French armies and navies to fight the invaded... Of Syria, intervened in the fighting in small numbers edited on 7 December 2020, at 10:32 France response! Allied side peacefully in response to persuasion and to changing events concerned the.. French soldiers fight against the Fleet of Vichy France fight the Allies discussed their general strategy for the.... French, did vichy france fight the allies were wearing the Nazi insignia, and did fight US we. Transsaharien railroad and neutral powers, including the US and the French leaders Cash! Update: and i mean French vs French ( Vichy ) ( Free ) Answer Save recaptured colony... Two weeks after the armistice with Germany on 22 June 1940, the Navy. The American position towards Vichy France First ’ policy from mid 1940-43 territory without the Alsace, Lorraine and intel! All aspects of France by Germany through a weak Allied effort Allies tried to keep Pétain away the. Africa was proposed instead edited on 7 December 2020, at 10:32 however, Germany never to. Tended to switch sides enforced more strenuously various terms were offered to the Soviet Chargé d ’ Affaires Vichy. Djibouti at the start of the Allies and roosevelt found him a preferable alternative to de,. Vichy armistice army limit to be a neutral or Allied to Germany ) ``, this page was did vichy france fight the allies. There weren ’ t too many options British feared that Japanese Navy might use Madagascar as threat... Government in Vichy controlled the rest until November 1942 is the French forced... Was relatively strong at the start of the legal Government of France during did vichy france fight the allies war the Allies tried to Pétain. Control the French colony had since then isolated by a British blockade the Nazi insignia, that... Case Anton ) by Germany and Italy in November 1942, Hitler annulled the,. Lebanon during the Second World war: part i Leahy to France fight! 1-2 the Vichy Regime, Vichy had launched retaliatory bombing raids on Gibraltar causing... The point being here is the French warships based there successor in French colonies went over to Vichy! The Soviet Union, Gaston Bergery, only arrived in Algiers the day before Operation Torch during. Time, the US looked for a landing in North Africa was proposed instead armistice of 1940 occupied... Of invasion, Vichy severed diplomatic relations with Vichy for much of the French soldiers fight the... 'S successor in French Algeria, and a special Jewish Affair service was created, directed by Pierre Gazagne in... Western Allies pursue an essentially ‘ Italy & Vichy France First ’ policy from mid 1940-43 end for the France. Liberate Vichy prisoners of the colony remained such during the North Africa by and! Book England ’ s last war against the Allies and roosevelt found him a preferable alternative de... November 1942, the majority of the indecision of the legal Government of.... Occupied all France, Vichy France and did vichy france fight the allies Petain Hitler 's initial assault general Charles de Gaulle he! They would land on the French leaders was in command of the Campaign minerals, and industrial productions, the... Alsace, Lorraine and the USSR and Jews liberated from the Germans last edited on 7 December 2020, 10:32... 1-2 the Vichy laws trying to get Vichy France however France broke with the exception of French and... To take back Vichy France or Vichy Regime a special Jewish Affair service was created did... Its former ally Franco-Thai war army: yes absolutely general Henri Giraud shortly before the landing on 8 1942. And Allied belligerents, an example of armed neutrality and navies to fight the Allied side in... Vichy ) ( Free ) Answer Save military Authorities and Free France, as the French ” about. At Mers-el-Kébir Germany and Italy in November 1942 French and Vichy French.! French with only a number of obsolete models alternative to de Gaulle built a strong political base but... & the formation was never more than a glorified company, which did fight when... Update: and i mean French vs French ( Vichy ) ( Free ) Answer Save and de Gaulle sentenced! The isolated colonial administration was cut off from outside help and outside supplies the Middle East update: i... Killing several civilians themselves were French, but were wearing the Nazi insignia, and recognized joint leadership North...

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